Subject: Fw: Thanks for your help Jack
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:43:38 -1000
From: xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx
To: "Jack Barr"

You Wrote:

Jack,
Thanks a lot for your help. You really cleared up that scripture for me but Zzzzzzz thinks you don't know what your talking about. Remember that verse you gave me in Mark 16:18. Well, he said unless we are snake handlers don't even use that passage. But that passages just mean poison will have no effect on us. And when Paul got bitten by that viper and never got harmed, it shows Yashua's words coming to past. Since we all know his words never return void. He even said to use the entire bible instead of just that one scripture. You know Jack, it doesn't bug me that he doesn't believe in prophecy or speaking in Tongues. WHAT really bugs me is when he twist the scripture to mean snake handlers. When I read that part I could feel like something just got Jab into my heart. He's grieving the Holy Spirit REALLY bad. When I tell him the Holy Spirit tells me this and that he says I'm going on feeling, he thinks your going on feeling too. Well isn't he going on feeling also? Actually when I read his email I could feel satan mocking. He has head knowledge of the bible but that's it. I don't even think he seeks after the heart of God. If he wonders why I hear the Holy Spirit speaking it's because I seek after the heart of God. I want to know why Yashua did this and that. Why he said this and that. I want to know what my Daddy God is feeling and thinking. I want to know everything about him because I love him. At times I would read the bible and cry when I see God's mercy and love. And I could feel Yashua there, holding me and loving me. It's more then just a book full of stories. I wonder if Zzzzzzz even understands that.

You see, he graduate at some bible college and had some of the best teachers (learned the bible in the way of man in the manner of man). So he thinks he knows a lot about the bible. Well, I'm not going to argue with this man anymore. If he wants to be hard headed and stiff necked then so be it. I pray he will not be one of those people that Jesus says "be gone ye workers of iniquity, I knew you not" I really pray that he realize the condition of his heart. To me he seems to be just like the Pharisees. Head knowledge but no heart knowledge. His email follows. I just notice something, he cares more about the word of God then God.

----- Original Message -----
From: zzzzzzzz@zzzzzzzzzz
To: xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Just to clear things up (nothing bashing)

> xxxxxxxx,
> Thanks for your apology but I know you just want to know the truth - but I still believe you are mistaken. I am sorry that I cannot accept your emotions and feeling and dreams and all other things - they are just somehting that I feel that the Bible does not support. And if I take what everyone "feels" - then Mormons have a "burning in their bosom" that they claim validates their theology. Hindus have mystical experiences as do Muslims and Buddhists. So I cannot accept what any "feels" or any feeling based theology. I have to start with the reliability of the Bible and that is where I start - and if my feelings do not fit in with what God's Word says then I must discard my feelings.

(Jack's Note: Mr. Zzzzzz is absolutely correct in that we can not go on feelings, that we must only go on what the Word of God says.)

In relation to the passage in Corinthinas. that which is perfect - the term used in the Greek for "perfect" is a neuter term - NEVER used for a person and definitely never used to refer to Jesus - neuter would mean that Jesus was a THING. I would challenge you to show me any place in the Bible where the same word is used in the neuter tense where it refers to Jesus.

( Jack's Note: I must make note that he is incorrect in the statement that this word and form is never used for a person. Strong's Concordance shows that the word "Perfect" in 1 Cor. 13:10 is number 5046, meaning "Complete", and in the neuter form it is a noun. His total argument is that although the word "Perfect" is used in reference to men as well as objects, that it can not refer to Jesus Christ because it is regarded as a noun rather than a verb. But we can see the same being applied to men in Mt. 5:48 "be ye therefore perfect" and to God "your father which is in heaven is perfect"; Mt. 19:21 "if thou will be perfect"; 1 Cor. 2:6 "wisdom among them that are perfect"; Eph. 4:13 "unto a perfect man". There is no need to go further, although there are many more such verses. The exact same definition is applied to both man and God. To refuse to accept that Jesus Christ, who is part of the Godhead, is "Perfect" is to even deny the deity of Jesus Christ on the basis of Man's definitions.)

[You instead claim that because the name Jesus kept popping upin your head - then it was the truth - so we are to interpret all Scripture not by what it says - but by what pops up in your head - well what about what pops up in my head - it is totally different - and what about someone else who feels differently - again you CANNOT go by feelings - I do not care how valid they seem I do not want what you feel - everyone feels differently and therefore you cannot depend on feelings - instead I want to know what God's Word says. And I have shown you one instance where the person that you are listening to is wrong. He does not show any knowledge of the Greek text of the Scripture - which is typicasl of many Pentecostals. Some Pentecostals even deny the deity of Christ because they have no grasp of the concept of the Trinity.

( Jack's note: My, MY, is it only Pentecostals who do not have any knowledge of Greek text? I have not gone to a school to learn modern Greek. I have only the use of the many reference books. But I really must comment on his claim that "there are some Pentecostals that even deny the deity of Christ because they have no grasp of the concept of the Trinity". I am a Pentecostal, and have never ever found a Pentecostal in any church who denies the deity of Jesus. While there are some Pentecostals who deny the Trinity there are none who deny the deity of Jesus. I do not believe that it is possible to deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and still be a Pentecostal. I do not believe that it is possible to deny the deity of Jesus Christ and to be a Christian.)

Everyhting you say in your emails are based on how you feel - I just cannot accept that - even if your feelings told you that I am right - that is no reaosn to believe me - in fact you had better never accept anyhting that I say unless I back it from the Scripture. Your friend's exegesis of the I Corinthains passage is pitiful - and he also is going on feelings. Feelings change - God's word does not. There is another site on the web of a prophet (elijah something)person who has predicted a great earthquake in Malaysia and Singapore tomorrow - am I worried no - maybe it will happen - maybe it will not. Either way does not make the person a prophet - but I have a feelign that it may not happen and therefore that person is a false prophet and according to the Old Testament should not be believed. As I am writing this CNN is reporting on all the hoaxes that people believe on the internet and how many of them take everyhting that they read on the net for fact. > You cite the following prophecy:

"Time after time you didn't repent, time after time I waited for you to repent but you didn't, therefore I will cause sores upon all your cattle and livestock. Not one person will have a livestock with out any sores on them." That is the word being fulfilled (just an example

Where is there any place with cattle with sores all over them. There are many in the US without sores on them - many here in Malaysia - is she wrong them. And mad cow disease is not something that causes any sores - and plus that is in Europe. last Sunday.

( Jack's Note: The above is in reference to Mr. Zzzzz speaking of someone else on the internet and not about Mr. Xxxxx or myself.)

Most people I know here that speak in tongues - and there are a lot of them - all sound the same - but that is because I have had too many people tell me that they were taught how to speak in tongues. I have had at least 10 people tell me that - therefore if they were all taught by the same person how to speak in tongues - which seems to be the case here - then no wonder they sound like they are speaking the same language.

( Jack's Note: To one who hears a language different from the one they speak would have a difficulty in telling the difference. I myself would not know the difference on hearing Spanish, Portuguese, Italian Egyptian, etc. How then does he determine that they are all speaking the same tongues? Tongues Can Not be learned from any man, for Tongues is the Holy Spirit of God Speaking Through a person. That person can only submit to the Holy Spirit and has no control over, or have any understanding of, what is being said. That is of God!!!! For it is God Himself who is speaking, not the person. If there are persons who claim that they were taught to speak in Tongues, then it is not of God in their case, but would be of Satan. And Yes, Satan does have a counterfeit Tongues. But Mr. Zzzz would not know the difference. )

Find me one passage in the New Testament where there is a church where tongues was the norm in any church other than the one in Corinth. The church in Corinth also had a problem with incest, abuse of the Lords Supper - and other problem - in fact it was probably the worst of all the churches in the New Testament and yet you want to use it as a model - that is not a very good foundation upon which to build a doctrine - something that was practiced in a poor church - does that mean you will also practice incest and abuse the Lord's supper because it was done in Corinth. Paul's words were corrective in Corinthians - there was a problem.

(Jack's Note: There are just too many verses which shows that ALL the Christians in the early years of the Church spoke in Tongues. It was the Norm and not the Exception. Example: Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." The Gift of the Holy Ghost was the Pentecostal anointing with the speaking in tongues. Peter is telling the people that everyone of them, on accepting Jesus Christ will speak in tongues just as the Apostles were. See Acts 1:5; 1:8; 2:4; )

In addition your friend cites a passage in Mark about people speaking in tongues - that same passage talks about handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison - does that mean that you are also going to be handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison - if you are really going to use that passage to support your position then you need to use the ENTIRE PASSAGE - not just take a few words to make your point - that is a poor technique of Biblical interpretation and anyone could prove anything using that technique. So either get out the poison and rattle snakes or cobras - or else do not use that passage - because that is a cut and paste method of reading the Bible which is WRONG. I continue to pray for you but will not go on my feelings or your feelings - only on what the Bible says - so do not tell me how you feel or what someone said to you - stick to showing me places in the Bible - not things other people say.

(Jack's Note: The signs of a Believer are given in Mk. 16:17-18 by Jesus Christ. Since Mr. Zzzz does not have any of these signs following him, he has to find a way to discredit these verses. So he turns and twists the scripture to mean what he believes rather than accepting what Jesus said. For myself, Since I have received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance, I Have cast out devils, I do speak with other tongues, I do lay hands on the sick and they recover, and if I am bitten by a snake as was Paul, I have God's promise that it will not harm me, and if someone tries to poison me, I have God's promise that it will not harm me. Would Mr. Zzzzz call Jesus Christ a Liar, or is he believing that you can not be a believer unless you keep snakes around your neck? In either case Mr. Zzzzz is obviously not a Believer.)

I continue to love you and pray that you will find the truth - not on the internet - but in God's Word. Best wishes, In His grip, zzzzzzzzz.

Answer:

Subject: Re:Fw:Thanks for your help Jack
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:20:22 -0500
From: Jack Barr
To: xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx

Hello xxxxxxxxx,

As I read your letter I can see that you are on the right track, the narrow track. You are letting the Holy Spirit lead you into all of God's truth. The false Christians will hate you for that.

You can not change Zzzzzzz's beliefs, for he will not listen. Jesus said in the book of Revelation about the Laodicean church, (and all the people during this time) that He, Jesus wished that any person was either Hot or Cold. If you are in-between, then you are lukewarm and Jesus will vomit you out (reject and discard you). If you are Hot, then you will Love and Serve Jesus, with a real desire to learn all that you can about Him and His Word, so that you can serve Him in the right manner. If you are Cold, then you can be lead to salvation and become Hot for Jesus. With this in mind, we can then understand that those who are lukewarm are the ones who believe that they are Christians, even though they turn and twist the scriptures to man's ways, which is condemned by God, and serve man and religion rather than God. These people, like the Pharisees, believe that they are on the right path even though Jesus says that they are not. They will not listen to you, me, or anyone else who tries to tell them the truth of God's Word as revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they can not be brought to salvation. (they think that they already have it). These are the ones to whom Jesus will say "Depart from me, I never knew you."

Your understanding of "snake handling" is correct. Those who deliberately go out and handle snakes (as some cults do) because of that passage, are trying, or are testing God, and God condemned the Jews in the desert for testing Him many times, and several times brought death on them for their actions.

He is right about some things. You must use the entire Bible, not just a verse or two, however, when you do use all of the Bible, you will find that the Bible confirms that verse, it does not invalidate it. His problem is that he does not believe in very much of the Bible, for he has discarded many parts that he does not like.

The other thing that he is right about is that not one of us can trust our feelings about the Bible or about Jesus and God the Father. But we, you and I, are not trusting feelings. We are exercising Faith, the very faith that God has given us, the faith to believe and to accept what the Holy Spirit tells us about God's Word. The faith to accept and to understand the visions which God gives us. The faith which allows us to know God's words when He speaks directly to us, that it is God himself who is speaking to us, even when everything that we see and hear around us seems to be saying that it just can not be. Those who do not have this faith can not, and will not, accept this, for they do not have it, therefore they can not believe that you have an inside track direct to God when they do not. But we know that as the adopted sons and daughters of God, through Jesus Christ, that we have the right to enter the throne room of God at any time to speak to Him, and that He will always listen to us.

I would like to use your letter on my web page, without any names or addresses. Your love of Jesus comes through so strongly in your letter, and you speak truth on several subjects.

As for the forwarded letter from Zzzzzzz, the letter shows that he has no understanding of God's Word at all. All that we can do is to pray that he may be enlightened before he stands before the judgment seat of God.

There are some things that I would much rather not know, for such knowledge as above cuts very deeply into my spirit, as I know that it will with your spirit also. But if you are willing to be used of God, then such hurts will come. Jesus Loves you, as you also love him, I know at this instant that you are in the Bride of Christ, part of the true church. Be known that because of this, you will suffer persecution for the name of Jesus, but Jesus will be by your side no matter what happens.

May God lead you into all of His Truth.

Rev. Jack Barr